LACUNAS - Podcast on Science, Diplomacy and Culture

00:00:05: In April, the mummies of twenty-two Egyptian kings moved to their new home in a grand procession through Cairo accompanied by music and artistic performances.

00:00:35: With this far as Golden Parade official Egypt not only staged The relocation its cultural heritage To New York National Museum of Egyptian Civilization in Fustat but also gave a boost to its tourism industry.

00:00:49: The country on the Nile is placing a strong emphasis on cultural heritage in it's foreign relations as well, what we might call diplomacy through culture or Heritage Diplomacy – In Egypt's case Welcome To Lacunas!

00:01:10: A podcast by the University for Continuing Education Cremes exploring the interplay between science, culture and diplomacy.

00:01:22: We want to highlight the growing importance of science, but above all culture for a country's diplomacy.

00:01:30: In a world of rising tensions where previous multilateral order seems to be breaking down The mechanisms of soft power which in international relations include Culture and Science are becoming enormously important.

00:01:46: Cultural heritage is often the playing field where the fault lines, challenges and characteristics of science & cultural diplomacy become particularly visible.

00:01:57: This is true not only for Egypt but also for Austria.

00:02:01: Culture and Heritage have long been important factors in Austrian Diplomacy.

00:02:06: For decades, Austrian foreign policy has relied on power music and artistic works as well as Science through its network of foreign cultural institutions.

00:02:19: With thirty-two cultural forums in twenty nine countries serving as hubs, Austria builds cultural bridges around the world.

00:02:29: According to the Austrian Ministry for International Affairs over five thousand cultural and scientific projects are presented and run each year within this network.

00:02:40: In twenty twenty three The Network celebrated it's fiftieth anniversary.

00:02:50: History and understanding.

00:02:58: Science, culture & diplomacy have a long history of influencing one another.

00:03:04: On the One hand this is a history of instrumentalization on The other it has brought real benefits for improving international cooperation.

00:03:14: Even in ancient times rulers used culture to strengthen their power From the monumental buildings of Egypt to the recognition of the culture of conquered territories like the Persian and Roman empires, And to Hellenistic culture as an export commodity.

00:03:31: Culture has long served political purposes.

00:03:36: When nation-states become colonial powers The instrumentalization of culture took on a new hegemonic dimension.

00:03:43: in the nineteenth century World exhibitions for example were not only a way to showcase technological innovations and economic achievements, but also a stage for cultural accomplishments.

00:03:57: In the twentieth century culture diplomacy took another form with the establishment AND spread of cultural institutes such as The British Council & The Goethe Institutes.

00:04:17: Interestingly ,the term Cultural Diplomacy itself was not coined until the middle over the Twentieth Century.

00:04:25: Cultural Diplomacy, an Art We Neglect by Alain Bou Lodzheim published in the New York Times Magazine is generally considered a defining moment.

00:04:38: And today?

00:04:39: In An Essay for The German Institute For Foreign Cultural Relations or IFA, Cultural Relations Specialist Martin Rose calls for close integration of cultural relations and traditional diplomacy.

00:04:54: Rosa speaks of a culturalisation of international politics.

00:04:59: Phenomena such as migration, radicalization identity politics the destruction of cultural heritage and global imagination transformed by digital communication are not only political challenges but profoundly cultural ones too.

00:05:18: According to Rosa culture is no longer understood as soft accompanying field but as a central factor in crisis analysis and management.

00:05:29: This requires integrating cultural and diplomatic instruments, taking long-term perspective AND building confidence – traditional strengths of cultural relations.

00:05:41: In short culturally informed crisis management especially in identity related conflicts requires recognising the new universality of culture.

00:05:53: And what about science diplomacy?

00:05:55: Compared to cultural diplomacy, it is a younger instrument canonised only in the twenty-first century.

00:06:03: Alessandro Lombardo co-chair of the European Union Science Diplomacy Alliance comments...

00:06:10: The connections between science and foreign policy and international relations are not new.

00:06:18: We have evidence of several connections the world of science and foreign policy, but at the same time... The concept of science diplomacy has become more important over the last I would say fifteen years.

00:06:40: Both as a field study or research but also as practice for carrying out international relations.

00:06:49: So probably there are different perspectives and therefore, also different definitions of science diplomas in everybody.

00:06:55: saying that is no one size fits all definition of science diplomacy.

00:07:00: but they have been several attempts to categorize or define some taxonomies of science diplomats.

00:07:09: the most famous are those proposed fifteen years ago by the Royal Society and the AAAS, The American Association for the Advancement of Science.

00:07:21: They propose a taxonomy based on three dimensions of science diplomacy – science for diplomacy, science in-diplomacy and diplomacy for

00:07:37: science.

00:07:38: supporting international scientific cooperation through diplomatic channels.

00:07:43: Second, science for diplomacy using signs as a form of soft power to strengthen international relations.

00:07:51: and third, science in diplomacy – supporting diplomatic processes with scientific research and its findings.

00:08:02: In the nineteenth century, scientific operation already helped maintain links between countries that were often not on friendly terms.

00:08:11: This included the Geodetic Association, founded in eighteen sixty-two an early meteorological corporation and The First International Polar Year in eighteen eighty two to eighty three.

00:08:26: One period of history when science played a particularly important role in bridging hostile political systems was the Cold War era.

00:08:36: In this era Science often acted as a neutral diplomat helping to keep channels of communication open.

00:08:43: In modern terms, we might call this Track Two Diplomacy.

00:08:47: A good example is the Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs founded in nineteen fifty-seven.

00:08:55: They brought together scientists from East & West to discuss disarmament issues.

00:09:01: One reason for that was, of course The scientific community's intense involvement in developing the atomic bomb.

00:09:09: The series of conferences was founded by the British-Polish physicist Jozef Rothblatt and the British philosopher Bertrand Russell.

00:09:18: Among the participants at the first conference in Pagwash, USA were three researchers from the Soviet Union along with scientists from around the globe.

00:09:29: Another example is the CERN Nuclear Research Centre in Geneva Switzerland.

00:09:35: Although it was founded in nineteen fifty four by Western European countries Scientists from Eastern Europe have participated in research there on an occasional basis since the nineteen sixties.

00:09:47: Alessandro Lombardo

00:09:49: During The Cold War, There were several examples of cooperation between scientists from different blocks that we're working together and they were keeping a communication channel open in times where of course the division... ...of the Cold War was somehow hindering normal diplomatic relations between two blocs.

00:10:19: In Europe,

00:10:26: the institutionalisation of science diplomacy happened rather late.

00:10:39: A major milestone was the founding of European Science Diplomacy Alliance which brings together resources and efforts for science diplomacy across the continent.

00:10:49: Alessandro Lombardo

00:10:52: In terms of milestones, I think that we have to mention in last year's implementation on some Horizon project in the field of Science Diplomacy that were successfully implemented by several partners at European level.

00:11:15: And their partnerships then decided to merge, combine and create the European Union Science Diplomacy Alliance which was back in twenty-twenty one.

00:11:31: Since then the European Science Diiplomacy alliance has grown into a major network the major platform for science diplomacy in Europe.

00:11:42: Now counting about fifty partners of different natural universities, think tanks research centers.

00:11:51: but those international organizations or a diplomatic body like the Central European Initiative are participating in the Science Diplomacy Alliance.

00:12:02: And I would mention this as one of the major milestones, and i will mention another major milestone.

00:12:09: The elaboration of the expert report towards a european science diplomacy framework which was issued in uh... twenty-twenty five ,and it was elaborated by working groups ...by five working groups including one hundred thirty experts.

00:12:33: One of the partner institutions of the European Union Science Diplomacy Alliance, or EUSDA for short is The University For Continuing Education CRIMS.

00:12:44: You might wonder why would a university be working on diplomacy?

00:12:55: Well let's take a step back and look at the role that universities actually play in science.

00:13:02: And universities hold a very special position.

00:13:05: Their structure gives science and research secure institutional home, at the same time they enjoy high level of trust and status in society.

00:13:17: It's exactly this combination that makes them so powerful.

00:13:21: They are positioned to address questions that emerge from research itself or transdisciplinary collaboration with partners And even beyond that, they can actively contribute ideas and solutions when it comes to tackling the challenges ahead.

00:13:39: I would say from a very beginning.

00:13:41: universities have been international in outlook for most of their existence.

00:13:46: They've always worked across borders, cross disciplines and cultures and this openness is part of the very essence science.

00:13:58: As Europe's leading university for continuing education, our University the University of Continuing Education CREMS has therefore defined science diplomacy as a priority.

00:14:10: For us this is not just an additional topic but it's part of the universities responsibility towards society.

00:14:18: So science does not stop at borders.

00:14:22: This is particularly true today.

00:14:24: The main reason The presence confronts society with major challenges of a global nature.

00:14:32: As we know that global challenges do not stop at national borders, whether we are talking about ecological crisis technological disruptions such as AI or demographic developments like aging populations these all shared challenges and off course.

00:14:50: They require close international collaboration if we want to achieve sustainable solutions.

00:14:57: Diplomacy helps us as universities, build bridges in this context and science with its objective and solution-oriented approach can support diplomacy in addressing complex global issues.

00:15:12: For instance you consider the United Nations initiatives of climate and biodiversity.

00:15:19: We as the University for Continuing Education CREMS, like science itself have a strong international orientation and we are embedded in numerous global networks.

00:15:31: And that's why it is so important to promote diplomacy at strategic level and open up new perspectives especially when it comes to recognizing vital role of culture.

00:15:45: In the end, science diplomacy is also about fostering understanding and that's something universities are uniquely positioned to contribute too.

00:15:55: Looking back at history, science-diplomacy and cultural diplomacy often seem to run in parallel.

00:16:02: Highlighting the connections between the two is the aim of the Science Diplomasy & Cultural Section within EOSDA which was founded in twenty twenty five.

00:16:13: This section has led jointly by the University for Continuing Education CREMS and Erich Piaget from Freie Universität Brussels.

00:16:22: Christina Heinzel, who works at the university for continuing education CREMs represents The University CREMs in the European Union Science Diplomacy Alliance AND co-leads the science diplomacy and cultural section with Eric Piagets.

00:16:37: So are there two domains of science & culture in diplomacy competing?

00:16:43: or do they complement one another?

00:16:46: I

00:16:47: think there are several different levels that interact with each other.

00:16:51: Cultural heritage is always closely connected to research, be it in the humanities but also technical sciences.

00:16:59: Think of how quickly Notre Dame was repealed for example.

00:17:03: That's possible because detailed scans and measurements of building structure and architecture already existed.

00:17:11: Today, using chemical and technical methods we can identify and analyze ancient artifacts more precisely than ever before.

00:17:21: The Egyptian Museum in Turin shows this very well.

00:17:24: Visitors see not only the artefacts themselves there but also scientific methods used to study them.

00:17:31: However both culture & science depend on diplomatic relations of course.

00:17:37: Under what circumstances is it possible to conduct research somewhere or carry out expectations?

00:17:43: Culture and scientific achievements also play an important role in diplomacy.

00:17:49: They form part of a country's identity, can therefore become means for diplomatic representation in international relations.

00:17:58: One advantage of culture is that it appeals directly to our emotions.

00:18:03: It quickly brings something close to us But in any case, it affects us directly.

00:18:10: I think that for museums and cultural institutions cooperation will become increasingly important in the future – cooperation with research institutions but also as communities that may previously have been involved only to a limited extent.

00:18:26: By Communities i mean local communities who pass on knowledge traditions or cultural and economic practices.

00:18:35: There is a growing awareness of how important

00:18:37: this is.

00:18:51: When we think about cultural diplomacy, the dominant role of the cultural heritage really stands out.

00:18:58: What mummies are to Egypt music from past eras is to Austria But why does cultural heritage hold such prominent place?

00:19:07: Kristina Hänzel.

00:19:09: Cultural Heritage has great deal with our identity.

00:19:14: It can be a building, a monument an artefact or tradition passed down through folk culture.

00:19:21: For example particular songs dances and rituals.

00:19:25: All of this is very important for communities.

00:19:29: You also observe how newly-forming communities which in our time are sometimes partly hybrid develop cultural identity within the period of time.

00:19:40: In these processes Traditions or rituals can take on quite different meanings.

00:19:45: Of course, there are also negative examples of this for instance in the case of radical groups and authoritarian regimes.

00:19:53: Heritage itself changes over time And we also reshape it when we look back at history.

00:19:59: The moment we place artifacts or traditions In a particular context We add something to their story.

00:20:07: That is why I am very interested in how artists and others who work in culture engage with artifacts, traditions.

00:20:15: By taking them up into their works they continue these stories in a certain sense but there are also questions or narratives behind it.

00:20:23: Alishari was our guest at the first conference engages very intensively with those questions.

00:20:30: The EU-SDA section of science diplomacy & Culture devoted an entire conference to special role of cultural heritage in diplomacy.

00:20:40: The Science Diplomacy and Heritage Conference took place in December, twenty-twenty five And the organisers deliberately chose Venice a UNESCO World Heritage Site as the venue.

00:20:52: As Christina Heinzler explains, Venice's own challenges with climate change and mass tourism serve as a stark reminder Of the need for common approaches to cultural preservation.

00:21:03: At the same time, Venice has a helpful contemporary art & culture has become a kind of laboratory, combining the old with new and transforming it through contemporary artistic practice.

00:21:46: but through meaning.

00:21:49: One aspect stands out in the debate on science and cultural diplomacy both are often described as forms of soft power, soft-power as opposed to power diplomacy which draws on economic technological military or cultural dominance.

00:22:06: But is that really the case today's international relations?

00:22:12: Head of Division for Cultural Preservation and the German Archaeological Institute at The Federal Foreign Office in Berlin, reflects on this question.

00:22:22: I think that both cultural diplomacy and science diplomacy are considered to be part of soft power.

00:22:31: And now their traditional approach

00:22:33: towards soft-power

00:22:34: has always been a kind Soft Power Champion tries to impress other

00:22:41: states, other societies.

00:22:43: With the aim of then finally make the other society or state

00:22:50: voluntarily

00:22:52: follow the soft power champions lead and what is so important about ways that's a question to strengthen diplomatic relations is to reinterpret

00:23:09: the soft power approach.

00:23:13: To go away from subordination, whether voluntarily or not... ...to a

00:23:20: real

00:23:21: partnership approach on equal footing without any sort of sub-ordination.

00:23:30: Director-General for International Cultural Affairs at the Federal Ministry of European and International Affairs.

00:23:37: I think we all agree in today's

00:23:40: times

00:23:41: that we need cultural diplomacy more than ever, when i think about the meaning of soft power it is better to talk about the power of relations Because in fact, this it is.

00:23:54: So

00:23:56: what we also try to implement and maybe I can inform you a little bit later about it also in the Austrian approach... ...is really have these equal relationships.

00:24:05: so we're trying to implement.. ..also their approach of European Union when comes into cultural relations.

00:24:13: that

00:24:14: put dialogue and empathy at its focus

00:24:18: on our concept

00:24:20: And I think we really have to redefine it.

00:24:22: and for me soft power is not soft at all.

00:24:26: In today's

00:24:27: times, its

00:24:29: a very strong power.

00:24:31: It´s the power of art & culture.

00:24:35: Soft Power then Is no longer about cultural superiority.

00:24:39: Its about relational infrastructure.

00:24:42: Culture becomes diplomatic language Heritage become so-to speak one of its most visible dialects.

00:24:51: Cultural heritage occupies a special place in diplomacy, it embodies identity and in times of conflict is often the first target.

00:25:02: As Christina Heinzel put it culture has always been at the forefront of conflicts.

00:25:08: When wars begin cultural heritage is often destroyed first.

00:25:13: Today cultural heritage threatened not only by conflict but also ecological challenges that call for diplomacy and joint international efforts.

00:25:25: Samuel Partey, head of unit and regional advisor for science at the UNESCO Regional Bureau for Science & Culture in Venice highlights the importance of International Corporation referring to the example of UNESCO's man-and-the-bysphere programme.

00:25:43: As populations increase you know, people tend to adopt practices that impact negatively on the environment.

00:25:53: So UNESCO came up with idea of man and biosphere so basically trying to have a mechanism by which there can be peace in building process between humanity and nature.

00:26:09: And today there are over seven hundred fifty nine biosphere reserves because countries identify them as a means of meeting certain targets, but also as way for preserving heritage.

00:26:26: A lot these sides are part and integral components to the cultural identity of countries.

00:26:36: UNESCO's Biosphere Reserves Climate Adaptation Mechanisms and International Conventions show how science & culture intersect.

00:26:45: Science informs heritage protection.

00:26:48: Heritage in terms mobilises political will, but there is another area where the diplomatic weight of heritage becomes visible – perhaps most visible —of the debate over restitution.

00:27:03: Over time a large number legal frameworks have been developed to address this issue.

00:27:08: The earliest relevant convention dates back to nineteen fifty-four the UNESCO Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in The Event Of Armed Conflict.

00:27:19: Another key instrument is the nineteen-seventy UNESCO convention on means prohibiting and preventing illicit import, export & transfer ownership of cultural property.

00:27:31: These conventions are complemented by the Unidroit Convention on Stolen or Illegally Exported Cultural Objects.

00:27:40: One its key advantages is that it allows private individuals to take direct legal action in court.

00:27:48: Under the UNIDRA Convention, stone-cultury property must always be returned.

00:27:54: In this way It closes gaps in earlier conventions by introducing uniform private law regulations.

00:28:03: The Washington Principles addressed the issue of Nazi confiscated art.

00:28:08: In addition, EU regulations aim to prevent the illegal import of art into the EU.

00:28:15: The challenge is that while these frameworks cover many cases they do not address every possible situation involving looted cultural heritage.

00:28:24: Objects with a colonial context in particular remain a major challenge.

00:28:29: Catalina under the Edis, a Rome-based lawyer specializing in restitution issues.

00:28:34: In fact and we lawyers this is very important that you have to look at facts At the facts.

00:28:40: they understand how to deal with With our claim in front of us.

00:28:44: So ha ha ha.

00:28:45: how to do?

00:28:46: We have to understand what law might be applicable To the case in front Of Us and facts will tell us This.

00:28:54: so my point here Is there are so many different factual backgrounds that might be interpreted within the meaning, and they may understand it in the concept of looting.

00:29:10: Cases from the Nazi era are often very complex and multifaceted even though there can usually be limited to the period between nineteen thirty-three and nineteen forty five.

00:29:21: colonial restitution cases by contrast I even more difficult to grasp for an illegal perspective.

00:29:29: They span decades, if not centuries and involve geographical contexts that are hard to define.

00:29:36: In such cases the law quickly reaches its limits.

00:29:41: What is needed there for?

00:29:42: Is cooperation across academic disciplines And diplomacy.

00:29:49: So it's not a legal question.

00:29:51: this is what I would like to say.

00:29:53: but these cases to a very large extent involves involve expertise from very different disciplines, so not only law but history provenance research philosophy ethics diplomacy and so on.

00:30:12: So we really have to look at this case is not only for the legal angle because I think what do you mean?

00:30:21: that we don't have legal solutions here?

00:30:24: And finally, what I would like to say is that ultimately these solutions might be dependent on policy choices as we are already discussing this.

00:30:33: The willingness of the governments whether they actually want to deal with these situations and in an international context – whether these governments will work together.

00:30:46: Ghana's recent negotiations were the British Museum over the restitution of the Asante treasure Looted by British troops in the nineteenth century, illustrate this complexity.

00:30:58: A brief note at this point... Episode two of The Lacuna's podcast will explore this topic in greater detail!

00:31:06: It'll feature a conversation between Oxford Professor Dan Hicks and Ivor Igaman Dua, director of the Mahaya Palace Museum in Kumarsigana.

00:31:16: Igaman-Dua on the Complexity Of Restitution?

00:31:21: Then we also realise And I, in particular did that you can't do these things

00:31:28: alone

00:31:29: or even as a community head.

00:31:31: You have to play it out with those who are also

00:31:35: willing sort of a coalition of the willing.

00:31:39: so i realized that we talk.

00:31:40: people would like minds and once he becomes an agitation and wants to become very forceful accusing others what they didn't participate in centuries ago Heritage diplomacy has become pragmatic.

00:31:56: It is not about victory, but managing relationships.

00:32:00: Even loans can be symbolic gestures Reopening dialogue where legal processes had stalled it.

00:32:08: But heritage diplomacy today also faces a planetary challenge.

00:32:13: Climate change Rising sea levels Floods and environmental degradation threatens cultural memory worldwide.

00:32:22: Muammar Adil, a Pakistani diplomat at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

00:32:28: From climate diplomacy point-of-view we are among the top ten most vulnerable

00:32:32: countries

00:32:33: from historical points of view.

00:32:34: Pakistan is based in the Indus Valley civilization which was one of oldest civilizations.

00:32:40: so there's

00:32:40: lot

00:32:41: history Mohenjo Daro, Texela The Buddhist civilization especially towards North.

00:32:48: There's a whole

00:32:49: legacy

00:32:51: of history that is over

00:32:52: there

00:32:53: and it requires

00:32:55: more international

00:32:56: partnerships.

00:32:57: So what the ideal approach that we're trying to pursue is find more and more partners, more conversations.

00:33:04: To complement them rather than creating parallel structures.

00:33:06: so from our point of view you've got a very definitive problem in the form climate change.

00:33:14: there's a lot cultural heritage needs

00:33:16: protecting.

00:33:17: We are trying come up with how we can match regional and multilateral approaches.

00:33:23: The examples from Ghana and Pakistan show how multifaceted, and complex the requirements for addressing today's challenges have become.

00:33:32: They require dialogue at many different levels –the commitment of official institutions alone is not enough.

00:33:40: Corporation with NGOs & private actors is essential.

00:33:45: a holistic approach is needed.

00:33:48: Cultural diplomacy today does not take place only in ministries.

00:33:52: It also happens in unexpected collaborations where bottom-up initiatives play an important role.

00:33:59: Alessandro Garbellini, director of multilateral cooperation at the Italian Foreign Ministry.

00:34:05: I was serving in Oman since recently and Oman had never joined Venice Biennale before But still, they had quite a dynamic local contemporary art scene.

00:34:21: So we were in touch with the Venice Biennale organizers and brought a challenge for local Romani artists... ...with the winner of the competition for Young.

00:34:36: Venice Biennale artists, there was a residency in Moscow together with this gallery and network.

00:34:46: And eventually they became the very first members of the First Omanipavilion in Venice last year.

00:34:55: so it was good example how starting from a bottom-up process.

00:35:03: So there was the idea, commitment of artists and then it turned out to be also diplomatic success because we brought in new country into exhibition.

00:35:17: so as you said I fully agreed that engaging private stakeholders is crucial.

00:35:25: Culture has soft power Works best when it is not orchestrated but enabled.

00:35:32: When states create space, not scripts.

00:35:36: Culture's not an ornament of diplomacy – It is its connective tissue.

00:35:42: If diplomacy is the art of managing relations culture may be its most human instrument.

00:35:53: Section four The role of Art for Diplomacy.

00:36:03: In discussions about the relationship between culture and diplomacy, The role of art is often overlooked.

00:36:11: Yet arts reflective AND emancipatory power plays an important role in international relations particularly in democratic contexts.

00:36:21: Precisely because Art follows its own methods & forms of expression It also offers an important complement to science in debates on International affairs.

00:36:32: So, if monuments and heritage shape diplomatic relations what role does art itself play?

00:36:40: Ali Sherri argues that we should critically examine the institutional frameworks of culture including museums.

00:36:49: The internationally acclaimed artists who live in Paris spoke at the Science Diplomacy & Heritage Conference in Venice.

00:36:56: His message was simple Don't tell stories let artworks speak for themselves.

00:37:03: And for me, I think the failure of museums still being like having something to say or at least a project for society today.

00:37:17: A museum is my vision on what kind of society we want to live in.

00:37:22: and it's coming from complete lack understanding about objects what objects can do.

00:37:32: And we are in this obsession of, you know... This new dogma of storytelling and these objects are only there to be like fit-in within a certain constructed narrative or whatever the museum historians conservators whoever has authority at a museum producing knowledge want these objects say?

00:37:56: I consider our role as artists is actually to remove this mask of meaning that the institution are trying to force on these objects and, in a way release relief these objects from having to tell us something.

00:38:15: I mean i don't think in museum.

00:38:18: we go to the Museum to see what's the story The Museum has constructed for us.

00:38:22: museums should be place allowing stories to emerge.

00:38:28: Regardless of the context in which artistic objects are viewed, whether as heritage –in debates about restitution– or within cultural diplomacy they should remain free from appropriation.

00:38:43: Let us return to where we began The mummified bodies of Egypt and much its cultural heritage.

00:38:50: far from being free of appropriation Perhaps however International Corporation is at least one way of objectifying narratives and coming to terms with their colonial context.

00:39:04: A path that Abdelazeg El-Nagar believes in.

00:39:08: Abdelzeg el-Nagar, coordinator for the Slovenian Egyptian Heritage Science Platform Slavnil – a professor for heritage science in Slovenia & Egypt emphasises that Egypt possesses an outstanding world class heritage that transcends cultural and temporal boundaries with collections dispersed globally, especially across Europe.

00:39:31: He notes that today European galleries libraries archives and museums hold unique Egyptian collections.

00:39:39: although many of these collections have colonial provenance they continue to generate knowledge preserve tangible and intangible values support education tourism research innovation.

00:39:54: Against this backdrop, initiatives such as Slavnile he explains help Egypt and Europe work together in partnership to document interpret and sustainably manage the heritage.

00:40:07: Such collaborations with involvement of indigenous scholar & people he argues demonstrate how science diplomacy and interdisciplinary heritage science can support Egypt's contemporary cultural landscape enrich global understanding of its historical innovations and foster more equitable, decolonised narratives for future generations.

00:40:38: Diplomacy is seeking solutions on the basis of collaboration.

00:40:42: Art may do something different It destabilises certainty.

00:40:47: Perhaps this is the paradox of cultural diplomacy.

00:40:50: Art does not consolidate power but exposes it.

00:40:55: If we understand this paradox as a chance It could open up room for diplomacy to be more than negotiation, but imagination.

00:41:06: That

00:41:09: is also a reason why the freedom of art in science isn't spread so often.

00:42:05: Stay tuned for episode two, the Restitution of the Asante Treasure and The Role Of Diplomacy in Cultural Heritage.

00:42:12: A conversation between Dan Hicks.